21.5T brushless system?

the DJ wrote:I wouldn't make a ruling to make it only brushless in it's second season, silvercans will always be around, and in theory so far the 2 motors should be compatible to run together competitively, if the correct testing and results thereof are governed to keep it fair. Not everyone will have the dosh to make the switch, and you'll lose racers because of it. When brushless came out the guys still ran 19t and 27t brushed motors against them competivly for a while, till the software upgrades came along which put the bl performance out of reach of their brushed counterparts because it was managed correctly. But, one day I'm sure every class will be brushless and newbie kits will be sold with bl systems, like the TT kits and TA kits.

Granted, but bl in the long term will be cheaper. What i've seen in the past with (motorsport) is, if you drag something out for to long, people get lazy or used to something and it will never change (for example someone said this topic has been spoken about before), thats all that is happening. In my opinion our current clubstock guys are well estabilished guys in rc, they've been there for a couple of years, they will be there for a couple more, and the new guy (AndrewH) wants to do it. So get on and start implimenting it. If the idea is majority.

Nobody has said anything about a control rubber tyre? Will the work or will the not?

@andrew - I agree that if it's controlled it will work and it will work well and it will be attractive and not intimidating to newbies with silvercans. The controlled tyre option could work, but again, homework and testing needs to be done before a decision is made. Don't think you can just slap on a set of dynamites and away you go, the work for the TT class because of the speed factor, slap them on your clubstock car and you going to be all over the place. They are not decent top end tyres. Alot of factors are going to have to be considered with the tyre choice as there are many brands out there that will work, but all of these factors for each brand must be taken into account to see which is going to best suite diaz's surface, and ultimately the member using the tyre. The factors off the top of my head are: rubber hardness(hot, med, cold), insert hardness or ready mounted tyres, brand availability, one set per year or many, durability, and ultimately price. There are still many more factors you guys will think about, but think wisely if going that route.

@raider - I also agree with you re the long term benefit of going brushless, you preaching to the converted. But it's all good saying that the clubstock guys are established old racers, doesn't mean they want to all convert. Yes, clubs need to start moving forward and doing something about it instead of just talking about it, but you must always bear in mind that clubs need to sustain their membership and grow it too, and to do that you need to make the classes offered inviting to them. Even if it went to a vote and all the clubstock guys voted for brushless only, I can guarantee you that the class will not grow. Also bear in mind the newbies riding in TT this year, what do they progress to next year without spending a cent if clubstock is only brushless?

There are alot of factors to consider with the above as I've said, you guys need to consult with the experienced guys in the club to find the correct way forward, they have many many years experience under their belts, probably over 60yrs between them.

Anyway, enough insight from me, I'm not a member there, it's up to you guys, but I hope I've helped answer some of your questions.

the DJ wrote:@andrew - I agree that if it's controlled it will work and it will work well and it will be attractive and not intimidating to newbies with silvercans. The controlled tyre option could work, but again, homework and testing needs to be done before a decision is made. Don't think you can just slap on a set of dynamites and away you go, the work for the TT class because of the speed factor, slap them on your clubstock car and you going to be all over the place. They are not decent top end tyres. Alot of factors are going to have to be considered with the tyre choice as there are many brands out there that will work, but all of these factors for each brand must be taken into account to see which is going to best suite diaz's surface, and ultimately the member using the tyre. The factors off the top of my head are: rubber hardness(hot, med, cold), insert hardness or ready mounted tyres, brand availability, one set per year or many, durability, and ultimately price. There are still many more factors you guys will think about, but think wisely if going that route.

@raider - I also agree with you re the long term benefit of going brushless, you preaching to the converted. But it's all good saying that the clubstock guys are established old racers, doesn't mean they want to all convert. Yes, clubs need to start moving forward and doing something about it instead of just talking about it, but you must always bear in mind that clubs need to sustain their membership and grow it too, and to do that you need to make the classes offered inviting to them. Even if it went to a vote and all the clubstock guys voted for brushless only, I can guarantee you that the class will not grow. Also bear in mind the newbies riding in TT this year, what do they progress to next year without spending a cent if clubstock is only brushless?

There are alot of factors to consider with the above as I've said, you guys need to consult with the experienced guys in the club to find the correct way forward, they have many many years experience under their belts, probably over 60yrs between them.

Anyway, enough insight from me, I'm not a member there, it's up to you guys, but I hope I've helped answer some of your questions.

You have answered alot, thanks.

My input is only there purely to help you guys, and you can pick my brain as much as you like, but I don't have a vote, I'm not an active member, and I don't carry any weight as to the clubs descision making, that's up to your committee and current members. But thanks for acknowledging my input anyway.

Any advice I can help with I will with pleasure any time, you know where my heart lies(cnr 3rd & Worracker).
The sensible thing to do is to pick your current senior members' brains, as they are current and active members in the club and have the clubs growth and sustainability foremost in their minds, and also have a feel for the current vibe and direction with which things should be moving. The years of experience they carry far outweigh the knowledge I have, Christo has been in it for I'd guess close to or more than 20yrs, Raymond is not far behind him, Thinus has 10 plus years under his belt, Johan B has a year or two on me, and therein lies all the knowledge you'll ever need.

So, whats happening with this BL topic? Are you guys going to give it a bash this season or not?

A test has been done if it does not get controlled it will run circle around the silver can at a 45 rollout with a ice cold motor i was told that it could posibly run the same times as ss with the right gearing so we have to do i shoping and prepingright before we implement that

Hey guys, I am very keen on the conversion, especially the fact that with controlled gearing, esc's etc, the competetiveness should in essence be great! I will discuss with the pro's of DRCCC (Raymond, Christo, Thinus, etc) and will gladly reply with the outcome.

That's good to hear you guys are making progress on this topic. It has been suggested by razzor and I think I've mentioned it here aswell, he suggests using a club spec 17.5t system as opposed to a 21.5t system, as you cannot run high gearing with the 17.5 like with the 21.5. The 21.5 can be geared to over 60mm rollouts, whereas the 17.5's are around the 45mm mark.

Keep us posted as this is definately the way clubstock is going to go in the next year or so.

Hows the progress going with this topic? You guys are now into your second season, is someone running either the 17.5t stock or 21.5t stock system as a long term test or not?

Last nite we tested a 17.5t stock system in our GT class which runs the 23t tamiya brushed TZ & RZ motors, and we are pleased to say that it performed very well, it didn't post any of the fastest laps for the nite, but it did TQ and took the win. Tyron ran super smoothly with a tb03 chassis, the other guys were right on his heels but they were pushing too hard and made too many mistakes to be able to get past him. It actually looked like the 23t motors had more punch, but they were definately more difficult to keep in check coming onto the straights as apposed to the smooth performance of the bl motor. Looks like we'll be running these two motors side by side next year. We are also currently running 17.5t stock systems in our 2wd minis next to the sport tuned black cans, and the racing could not be more exciting. They are so equally matched because it's fwd and corner exit grip keeps them both in check. The bl mini by the way has only won one race this year and that was on the tennis court where the track was a bit longer and the black cans dropped off during the race as they got hotter.

So we as a club are definately moving forward with this bl trend, and so far it's working great. Hope you guys start taking the leap in more classes too.

Anything further happening with this topic? There are rumblings within sarda about reintroducing clubstock with a 21.5t system, it was voted on this year but didn't make it due to their voting sheet not being setup correctly, but I have pointed this out to them. So hopefu;;y when it comes up for voting again it will be a fair result.

Sounds very interesting. I wonder how the guys will cook those motors

Which guys?? At nats?? They will have such long rollouts they will run out of pinions before they can cook them I think!

edit

Some people have dosh, some people earn bonuses, some will have to sell of old chassis, but at R1k a pop for maintenance free racing it's well worth it.

DJ, you earn to much boet.

Dude, I fall into the category of having to sell stuff off before I can buy again!!

I don't even have stuff I can sell

I know, cause it's all new still!!!!

Is not, I have had all my TT01's since Uitenhage, in fact as you saw the day of the CC practice, I was still running Uitenhage gearing. Now that is real Dinosaur stuff ( wiff teeths )

So sell it, you got a photon and a 417 now!!!Progress!!!

don't believe everything you read in the newspapers bud.

Sorry, were you day dreaming again?

So who's testing 21.5 at diaz next year??? I think the lhs should put TWO test cars on track cause then you'll get an accurate result as to wether they are competitive for one, and wether the the two motors can run against each other in the same class or that clubstock class should make a clean jump to bl in season two. And we know Ray can wangle a special deal on combos if the numbers are there!!